"But to think that you've somehow trumped your atheist 'enemies' by denouncing them for not acknowledging a Supreme Being who, by your admission, is not the loving God you proclaim he is, is a reverse double bluff." Rene
I don’t consider you as enemies. I would like to see every atheist as my friend. Neither do I consider myself as being better than you, although I do see myself as being infinitely better off in the light of eternity.
If I could score one point with those who profess atheism, it’s to convince them that the god they don’t believe in, doesn’t exist. Each of us, until we are "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit, has our "understanding darkened." We are as Einstein said, like a little child in a massive library. I would add "an illiterate" little child. We are incapable of understanding, and so like Job (see Job 38:2), our words are without knowledge.
When an atheist talks of God as being a God of love, I can understand the impossibility of reconciling His harsh judgments with His professed love. How could He kill humanity through the Noahic flood or mercilessly kill all the Canaanites, and still be called “loving”? It makes no sense.
The answer in simple. It is because He is also "just" and "holy." To help us understand this, we must take a moment to do something that is unpleasant. Think objectively about your sins. Be blatantly honest. Don’t try to justify yourself. Go through the Commandments one by one and ask if you are you guilty of lying, stealing, blasphemy, lust, fornication, unthankfulness, ingratitude, failure to love others as much as you love yourself, and of course the big one--failing to God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength? Then ask how you would do if God lost patience and judged you right now by that perfect Law, and you have to come to the conclusion that He hasn’t dealt with you according to your sins. He hasn’t treated you as He treated the Noahic generation or the Canaanites.
If we remove God’s moral Law (the Ten Commandments) from the equation, this “God of love” and the harsh judgments we read in the Bible are diametrically opposed. But when the Law enters and we understand that He is both just and holy and loving and merciful, then we begin to get a right image of the God we must face.
This has never been so clearly illustrated as at the cross. There we see an evident display of God’s wrath against sin as the Lamb of God suffered for the sin of the world. But we also see an evident and amazing display of His love and mercy of God, when we understand that He suffered in Christ so that our case could be dismissed (see Romans 5:8).
Still, what I am saying is just words, and all the talk in the world cannot help you in this case. You need to "taste" what I am saying, because you are dying for want of the Bread of Life (see John 6:35). Every minute of every day is drawing you closer to breathing your last. The minute that you "taste and see that the Lord is good," the life of God will enter your dying body, and the argument about His existence and the Savior He proved will be over. You will know the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:31-32).
Saturday, July 18, 2009
If I Could Score One Point
90 comments:
You have to come to the conclusion that He hasn’t dealt with you according to your sins. He hasn’t treated you as He treated the Noahic generation or the Canaanites.
You're right, he hasn't. It's kind of like how when the kid in the campfire story says 'Bloody Mary' in front of a mirror three times and causes Mary to appear, but when I do it, NOTHING HAPPENS.
As for the whole 'Divine Law' thing, all I can say is that it's a whole lot more effective when People can see the guilty being punished. We are more motivated to obey the Laws of Men, not just for our desire to preserve social harmony, but because we get to see those who break the law punished. We see cops pulling speeders and drunk drivers over. We see perp-walks on television. Read about the outcomes of court cases in the papers.
If God started smiting people left and right for breaking the Ten Commandments, or knocked a city off the map with a pillar of fire, then yes, I would drop the whole Atheist thing before you could say 'Jesus Saves'.
But until that happens, I worship Haruhi Suzumiya.
Please address the central issue of who Jesus is Man-God, or Prophet of the Muslim Faith who speaks of one true God.
What a cupid stunt.
....last bit... (thanks for sticking with me)...
"To help us understand this, we must take a moment to do something that is unpleasant. Think objectively about your sins."
Oh dear...Ray has forgotten that he is talking to Atheists. Only you and your brethren (and sistren??)believe in the doctrine of 'sin' so your explanation may as well be a bunch of bible quotes. I believe in right and wrong, immoral and immoral and all the grey areas in between that make up the ever changing context of our lives. Lets PRETEND though...*he says with a sense of impending preaching*
"Be blatantly honest. Don’t try to justify yourself. Go through the Commandments one by one..."
Hold on...are these the commandments before or after your Jesus character got on the scene?
You dont specify but lets assume you are talking about the commandments from Exodus 20:2-17. So...1 by 1:
1) You shall have no other gods before Me.
What other Gods are there? This is the FIRST commandment?...wow, your God has real self esteem issues. Nothing moral about this one that I can see, just ego. I think I succeed on this one by a technicality though as I have no other Gods before Him...I just don't have Him either.
2) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.
Your God is REALLY moral..To think I was just about to carve a bird or a worm. Nothing moral here either...just more weirdness and egotism.
HOWEVER...After this commandment he continues in a childish hateful tantrum:
"For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."
Jealous...hmmmm, a very human aspect wouldnt you say? And he visits the iniquity of the fathers upon his grandchildren and great grandchildren.
Not 'just' at all then.
I will stop there because in only the second commandment this God that you worship reveals himself to be a viscious UNJUST and childish egomaniac.
And so I do not recognize his authority ecen in pretend-land and will say with ease that I believe I am more moral than this character. Most people are.
That you have lowered yourself to worship this fiction is just awful.
I could continue and talk about Exodus 21 where some absolutley fantastically immoral and unjust 'judgements' are listed like
"And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death"
and
"if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, [and] if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his property"
and
"He who sacrifices to any god, except to the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed"
and the ever-silly (if it hadnt caused many innocent deaths
"You shall not permit a sorceress to live"
but I won't bother.
I agree with one thing you say Ray wholeheartedly: You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.
I hope one day you are free of this nightmarish fantasy you have created for yourself.
Einstein was an atheist.
Really.
Seriously.
REALLY.
Look it up.
The only reason I bring it up is because you have to play 'this or that' with metaphysics.
Amen Ray.
TConx,
God DID knock a city off the map. Sodom and Gomorrah, and the five surrounding towns. When He starts smiting again, it will be too late for you then.
holy and just? are you kidding ray? so when a person kills a person its wrong,but when God does it its just? why? if a man killed another man for lying and blasphmeny,is that just? why not? according to you,thats the kind of person God would send to hell anyway.it is not holy and it is not just. all you are trying to do is make your God look like the good guy so you won't look immoral for worshiping him. this is why many atheists like myself have a problem with your religion as well as others. God does have the right to do whatever he wants just because he's God.if your god is real can he kill me? yes. is there anything i can do to stop him? no, but does it ok for him to do it? NO. so please explian ray why its ok for god to kill people,but wrong for people to do it. would you stand by and do nothing if your god came down and killed a bunch of people now? also when are you gonna debate matt dillahunty? you claim to want to "save" atheists from hell,yet you don't debate matt,a man who has defeated every religious person he has debated. tell you what ray,if you debate matt as soon as possiable and win,i'll convert to christianty.
T_ConX said...
"If God started smiting people left and right for breaking the Ten Commandments, or knocked a city off the map with a pillar of fire, then yes, I would drop the whole Atheist thing before you could say 'Jesus Saves'. But until that happens, I worship Haruhi Suzumiya."
God knows…
Ray, I respectfully disagree your statement that our "understand [is] darkened". I was once a Christian as well, and although at the time I would have made, and no doubt did make, statements similar to yours here, I have to say that my understanding of the world makes far more sense now than it did when I was a Christian (I know I know, I wasn't a "True Christian"). You present Christianity as if it's 100% internally agreed upon and wholly coherent, but this simply isn't the case. Even many of those who you would probably consider True Christians often disagree(d) wildly with one another about such basic doctrines as predestination, free will, baptism and many others. So I ask; why? Why is Christianity so hard to understand even among Christians? The entire field of apologetics (of which you are part) consists entirely of people trying to make some amount of coherent sense out a collection of books and concepts that just don't agree with one another. During my 25 or so years as a Christian, not once did I meet another Christian who didn't wrestle with the same conflicting ideas you present here. Week in and week out, we met to encourage and re-enforce the idea that even though none of what we believed made any good sense, it was the uncompromised truth. Week in and week out we met to try to understand "what was God's plan for me" and "why God would allow this to happen".
I don't have to wrestle with any of these concepts any more. When you come to see the religion for what it actually is, the world begins to make sense. I would argue that it is you that has your "understanding darkened"... by religion.
Your friend,
J
Ray asks us to consider what will happen if God "loses patience" with us. But losing patience is a character flaw. Ray is therefore asking us to consider something which is, according to his own view, impossible or self-contradictory.
Ray asks us to consider it just and right for God to punish us for the sin of failing to love him completely. But it is obviously unjust to punish somebody for a "failure" he cannot possibly correct, and according to Ray's own view, we cannot possibly love God completely.
Ray asks us to consider that God's "holiness" is what makes it right and inevitable that he demands perfection of us and eternally punishes those who come short of this standard. If this is true, why should we consider "holiness" a virtue? What good comes from it? Why shouldn't we think of "holiness" as (at best) a terrible flaw which God, unfortunately, cannot rid himself of?
You do have a point, Ray. It's right there, in plain sight, on top of your head ;-).
Ah, yes. And that, Ray, is why Einstein was a genius and you're a blithering imbecile. Though Einstein marvelled at the boundless horizons of knowledge stretched before him, he didn't think it literally impossible to sort what is true from what is false.
You're only an illiterate in a vast library because that's what you confine yourself to being. The sooner you shed your neolithic prejudices about the universe, the sooner you can join those of us spending our short lives learning what we can about the world around us.
Ray once more uses Einstein to sell Ray's religion:
"We are as Einstein said, like a little child in a massive library. "
He also wrote:
"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
- Albert Eintein in a letter dated January 3 1954.
So Ray, just out of interest (and ignoring for a moment your propensity to quote Einstein out of context in support of Christianity)...
.... why would you be appealing to the authority of Einstein?
TConX
The laws of men are also God's means of restraining sin on earth and a sense of justice inherent in men only re-enforces the nature of God as it's revealed in scripture.
If there's no God, as we are simply materialistic cosmic effects of forces that can't be explained, how can justice, fairness, good or evil be accounted for?
There's no good reason for there to be any of these things in your worldview!
I still don't understand why God would need to flood the world. Even if every person was evil, why use a flood? Why kill everything on earth because humans were evil, with all the power that God has, using a flood doesn't make any sense. Humans who don't understand a flood in an age of misunderstanding would certainly attribute a flood to an angry God.
I'm sorry Ray but every time you say "so that our case could be dismissed" I have to giggle. I find it hard not to imagine God wearing a white wig siting behind a bench in a court room... makes me think of the Monty Python image from holy grail movie. I just don't have that kind of image of God in my mind. I don't think he really has an image.
When it comes to perfection I'll be the first to admit, I fall quite short... Let me put it this way. I trust God, so if God used Jesus to pay for the "sins" of man then my trust in God would also fall to Jesus. I trust God even if I don't understand his nature and I am only a human so I accept anything he may have done. Personally however I don't think the Bible got it all right and so I doubt it's the word of God. I don't doubt God, I doubt the bible.
Ray Comfort said...
To help us understand this, we must take a moment to do something that is unpleasant. Think objectively about your sins. Be blatantly honest. Don’t try to justify yourself. Go through the Commandments one by one and ask if you are you guilty of lying, stealing, blasphemy, lust, fornication, unthankfulness, ingratitude, failure to love others as much as you love yourself, and of course the big one--failing to God with all of your heart, mind, soul and strength?
Ok then, for the sake of argument I will accept the idea that all of those things mentioned are indeed wrong and will be completely honest here. Yes I am guilty of all those things.
Then ask how you would do if God lost patience and judged you right now by that perfect Law, and you have to come to the conclusion that He hasn’t dealt with you according to your sins. He hasn’t treated you as He treated the Noahic generation or the Canaanites.
See this is where we disagree. Though I admit that I am guilty of all of those sins and will agree that as a guilty person I warrant some form of punishment for my misdeeds I simply can not accept that my crimes, even combined together, justify the punishment of an eternity of torture with no possibility of parole. That is not a just punishment.
All my crimes, however terrible they may be, are finite crimes that did a finite amount of harm and which lasted for a finite amount of time. To punish me infinitely for these crimes is not just.
Sorry Ray but the idea of infinite punishment for finite crimes convinces me that your God is not just. I simply can not see any way around that problem, though I would be interested to hear what you have to say on the issue.
T_ConX said: "If God started smiting people left and right for breaking the Ten Commandments, or knocked a city off the map with a pillar of fire, then yes, I would drop the whole Atheist thing before you could say 'Jesus Saves'."
Dear ConX,
You will find that all of those things have already happened multitudes of times. And in some form, are happening every day.
But more importantly, at an appointed time, they will all certainly happen at a breathtaking speed.
But if you wait too long, dropping the "whole atheist thing" will not do you any good (because the time will come when it doesn't take faith at all to know there "is a God"). At that time all that will be left for you to do is to hope rocks fall on you and hide you.
Revelation 16:
* 14.
* Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
* 15.
* And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
* 16.
* and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
* 17.
* For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
I implore you to investigate. Blessings....
I wish you wouldn't go on so much about "God's moral law." He plagiarized civilizations that came before the Jews. Just more proof that yours is a man-made God. I much prefer my own made-up Gods to yours. They are infinitely more fun to imagine and lack the human characteristics of your three in one silliness.
I expect this will be my last post (I just wanted to assure people that I wasn't smote for my remark in a previous post). Ray, I see your point. You believe that there is a God and his will is just and anything he does is perfect because he’s God. I can accept that. I don’t believe he exists at all but you are free to believe it.
The problem I have with you is that you assert things that are not true and then when you are corrected you do nothing to correct it (with few exceptions) and that you want to push your agenda in to the public schools.
1. You have claimed that, “Evolution is not scientific” and give lame reasons for your assertion, showing that you don’t understand evolution.
2. You have blurred the lines between evolution and cosmology, rejecting evolution because you don’t believe in the Big Bang, which has nothing to do with Evolution.
3. You have claimed that with evolution the male and female have to evolve separately and showed that you don’t understand how children are different from their parents.
4. You use Pascal’s wager, which is not compelling to anyone that has developed beyond the childish fear of being punished for breaking an arbitrary rule.
5. Your “Pulltheplugonatheism” website has a video that makes ridiculous assertions (below) and makes it seem like you want special rights rather than we are taking rights away from you.
a. “They hate Christmas” - I love Christmas! It’s one of my favorite holidays.
b. “They protest nativity scenes and public prayer” – Who? Perhaps when they are done as part of a government activity but never in your private life.
c. “They go to court to stop the Gideons from giving bibles out in schools” – You’re right. Do you want to allow someone to give out the Islamic or Scientology texts?
d. “They want to remove Under God from the pledge… and… In God we Trust from our money” – Most of us want the entire pledge eliminated but again, the school issue. State your pledges on your own time. Most of us don’t care if the money has God on it. It also has Masonic symbolism too. If you want to worship money that’s fine.
e. “They even want to change B.C. and A.D.” – Go ahead and keep using your abbreviations. Do you want to stop us from using ours?
I think I can speak for the rest of the Atheists here saying that if you stopped spreading lies and making assertions about something you don’t understand, we would leave you alone and you could get on to preaching to your flock.
...continued...
"We are incapable of understanding, and so like Job (see Job 38:2), our words are without knowledge."
oh dear...you had to go and use the bible when you know that atheists believe it was written by men and you have no proof that it was written by anyone else (or by any 'Godly inspiration').Which bible are we using today by the way, just so everyone has the same interpretation as yours which is bound to be correct?
"When an atheist talks of God as being a God of love..."
More aptly, considering a couple of posts ago,: "When an atheist responds to a christian who asserts that their God is a God of love"
"...I can understand the impossibility of reconciling His harsh judgments with His professed love."
Good, because that is when we start showing you in detail how he is immoral, unjust and hateful via the bible - your only window to knowledge of Gods character unless you claim to have met him. Lets hope I dont have to delve into your holybook for any apt verses!
"How could He kill humanity through the Noahic flood or mercilessly kill all the Canaanites, and still be called “loving”? It makes no sense."
It certainly doesn't, lets see how you justify the believed killing of thousands of innocent foetuses, babies and children (and men and women etc)...
"The answer in simple. It is because He is also "just" and "holy.""
I would have thought the term 'holy' would be a bit redundant here - can you offer your definition? Sacred and Godly are a couple I found which seems a bit obvious.
Just: guided by truth, reason, justice, and fairness; righteous.
OK lets see how we get on with Holy and Just. Go!
...last part coming (honest! I am bored in Yemen on full security lock down!)...
Lets do the Ray-warp again:
...it's a jump to the left...
... and a step to the rigiiiiii-i-i-i-ght...
...put your hands on your hips...
...bring your knees in tight...
Aw, y'all know the rest
:{O
wv: fusliti
Ray, you seem to be taking for granted that no one could dispute the justness of the Ten Commandments, or the right of God to impose them. But we do. Even if I thought God existed I would deny him all right to judge me and punish me.
A I said two posts ago, the central question I am interested in is whether you consider divinely commanded slaughter a valid possibility in this age. If you receive tomorrow a clear, unambiguous message from God instructing you to carry out military action on his behalf, would you follow that command. If not, then what has changed since the time of the old testament. If yes, then you are the most disgusting person on earth.
If the above question does not apply for some reason then I have a different from my viewpoint equivalent, one: If you were in the armies of Israel at the time of the invasion of Canaan, would you have willingly participated in the slaughter? This is not a philosophical question about God, this is a question about what you a human with intelligence entirely independent from any God, would do.
You assume that every nonbeliever struggles to reconcile the concept of why a loving God would also allow suffering and pain as well as punish humans. Perhaps people like Albert Einstein and C.S. Lewis struggled with that incongruity, reaching different conclusions, but I don't struggle with it. Both Einstein and Lewis were of a different time and culture, born into a world when the very thought of denying the existence of God was almost unthinkable. However, things are changing. Advances in science even since their time have caused more and more people to seek rational answers about their existence and how their world came about. The increase of atheism is proportionate to the amount of scientific knowledge humans have acquired. That is why creationists are so eager to push their agenda in the public schools. They know, just as the Catholic church knew in medieval times that if they can keep people in the dark, they will not question the church or its leaders.
"I don’t consider you as enemies. I would like to see every atheist as my friend."
Stop with the condescending 'you are lost, you are hungry, you love this, you believe that' tone and you may have more of a chance.
"Neither do I consider myself as being better than you, although I do see myself as being infinitely better off in the light of eternity."
Good for you, glad to hear it and I hope it works out for you. I see myself as being reincarnated as Superman...we can all FANTASIZE.
"If I could score one point with those who profess atheism, it’s to convince them that the god they don’t believe in, doesn’t exist."
I may very well be being thick here..but I have no idea what you are talking about. You want to convince us that your God doesnt exist...the one we already don't believe in. Is this some 'clever' Ray speech going on...I smell a trap...?
"Each of us, until we are "regenerated" by the Holy Spirit, has our "understanding darkened.""
Oh dear, here starteth the condescension. Go speak to one of the thousands of other sects, cults, religions, denomnations and spiritualists and argue this with them, then they can say whatever you say to them back to you. I will stand on the sidelines and watch in amazement and pity.
"We are as Einstein said, like a little child in a massive library."
Nice quote, it is fun reading all the books and 'growing up' a little each day with knowledge...have you ever read any other book than the bible Ray?
"I would add "an illiterate" little child."
Speak for yourself! Is that some of that people=wretches christian thing again where your loving God turns you all into grovelling sinful worship-slaves?
to be continued...
"If I could score one point with those who profess atheism, it’s to convince them that the god they don’t believe in, doesn’t exist."
I think you are doing a fine job with that Ray. You dishonesty and blatent lies do a great job at showing you don't even believe what you say half the time, and science denial-ism is doing a great job showing everyone how ignorant you are about the world.
How are you doing with the evidence that 100% of scientists thought the world was flat.
Something you used at least twice, even thought you were corrected.
Or that Gravity Evolves.
Something you used at least 3 times.
I see Gunther has returned to his comedy series over at mightymags? He's quite a funny guy.
When will you be accepting the debate offers with Richard Dawkins, Matt D, AronRa etc? Looking forward to them.
carl, how you coming with that law of gravity?
Killian, awfully silent, where is you evidence that the derived age of the earth has changed dramatically over the past few years?
Nature'sOwnBrew claims:
"Einstein was an atheist"
That's not strictly true. Einstein called himself a 'religious non-believer', an 'agnostic', and also someone who believed that the Universe itself was 'God' in the Spinozan sense.
Einstein was closer to a 'scientific pantheist' than any other description I've read, although he was definitely atheistic towards any idea of a personal God, notably the God of the Bible.
I find it an insult to his memory watching both theists and atheists desperately trying to distort Einstein's words in order to co-opt some kind of argument from appeal to an imagined authority (of Einstein's).
Hey Ray and all my Christian friends here, I am going to church for the first time tomorrow. It is actually an outside church for homeless people. I just thought you would get a kick out of that.
Amy2 said God DID knock a city off the map. Sodom and Gomorrah, and the five surrounding towns. When He starts smiting again, it will be too late for you then.
How does that make any sense to you? If he finnaly does appear before all of us... opps, to late? Is he going to say "I know I wrote a book for you but you wouldn't believe the book and now you have to burn because you didn't believe a book (or a bunch of books bound together into a book) and now it's to late but if I made it easy for you, then everyone would repent and it would lose it's value" .... I'm sorry but that's just strange...
IT'S ALL ABOUT LYING AND INSULTING FOR JESUS SAID: "Our situation with this world, and the life on this planet - is like the 'Titanic Story'.
Before she departed for her maiden voyage, the owner 'arrogantly' voiced "Not Even GOD Can Sink Her!" to the press.
Little did he know, that he 'cursed' the ship in his arrogance and boastfulness."
If this God had cursed the owner of the ship who offended Him with his words instead of the people on the ship who had nothing to do with the owner, maybe it would be easier to convince people.
Nah, that makes too much sense.
Ray,
Please consider deleting Culberto's first post. It's poorly veiled and crass.
Rabbitpirate,
Maybe you have a problem because God is infinite, and you are finite.
Terry said: Not enough life boats brought about so many needless deaths.
In a way, that's what your view of God shows. He didn't give us enough lifeboats/evidence to save us from Hell. Instead of making it easy to believe and follow him faithfully, he hides himself in scripture. I just don't believe that kind of view of God.
J said
During my 25 or so years as a Christian, not once did I meet another Christian who didn't wrestle with the same conflicting ideas you present here. Week in and week out, we met to encourage and re-enforce the idea that even though none of what we believed made any good sense, it was the uncompromised truth. Week in and week out we met to try to understand "what was God's plan for me" and "why God would allow this to happen".
Dear J,
I don't know how long it has been since you made a decision to reject God, but it seems you had questions that either no one answered or the answer was not the one you wanted to hear. Thanks for sharing about yourself.
Please keep reading this blog and I hope we those believes on this blog can help you realize the mistake you are making that will affect your immortal soul.
Blessings,
Amy2:
In previous posts you have implied that you think women who commit adultery should be stoned to death. Do you really believe this?
You also said that we weren't punished for the actions of Adam and Eve. But you wrote:
If Adam and Eve had obeyed God, we would be living in paradise today, because we would still have God's presence as they did.
Well, if we aren't punished for Adam and Eve's mistakes we are definitely paying a price. Call it what you want but it sounds like a punishment to me. It is wrong to punish me for the sins of someone who lived thousands of years ago.
Do you still think that according to the Bible we don't have a sinful nature?
Nothing that i do will justify eternal damnation into Hell ...
Statement from the bible .
MT 25:41
1. Hell is prepared for the devil and his angles It is not for you (Atheist).
John 3:18-20
2. Human Goes to hell because of love of darkness . Love of Sin .
Now you have a choice . Go to Hell and than argue with God that you are not justly punish Or Go to heaven and thank him for his infinite Mercy and grace ..
REV 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Nature'sOwnBrew said... "Einstein was an atheist."
No, he wasn't. While Einstein might not have agreed with Ray or any other Christian on who and what God is, he most certainly would never, ever side with any atheist. In fact, he took great offense to atheists like yourself using him to support your views. He said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
Did you get that? People who used Einstein's statements to support their claims that God doesn't exist made him angry.
So... Care to issue a correction? (I'm predicting you won't, just like ever other atheist who's claimed Einstein was an atheist.)
To J :
I am sorry that your christian walk have to be fill with so much doctrine problem that seem to be unable to come to a conclusion .Did you ask your pastor those question? if you did . Than your pastor must be sleeping !!! could be the pastor that pastor you are not save himself . My plead is that you find a Baptist church . That use kJV . It will clear up alot of "so call" doctrine misunderstanding !
Christian struggle with doctrine problem maybe because they don't read the right bible firstly . Second their pastor because of love of money became a compromise.
Take for example ! Baptism . Does baptism save ?
In Act 2 :38 seem to say it save . Keep in mind this is a speech by peter . so we need to ask peter what he ment .As we read 2 peter . we understand fully
1PET 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
So now we see that baptism is like a figure ( not the actual one) but the resurrection is the ONE that SAVE us !!!
See the difference with other version of the bible !
I am sorry that for 25 years of your life you did not have someone to expound all this to you ! but hey ! you have RAY Comfort Blog
Alot to true life and good material here that could dispense your doubt !! Keep asking !! and the truth shall set you Free !!!!!
But if your attitude is that because of all this doctrine problem . therefore i can justify why i left Christianity. than Think again !!
What did Jesus did to you that make you leave ?
He died for your sin and mine and came back to life !!!!
Try to refute this doctrine !!!!!!
Praise the Lord ... Ray ... This is a wonderful passage to illustrate . the Love and Judgment of our Lord ..
Amen ..
CHINESE åŠ æ²¹
Terry,
the alleged utterance "Not Even GOD Can Sink Her" or similar was made by an employee of the line, not the owner (if at all, the reports are somewhat sketchy).
But I guess it doesn't matter much to you, since you have no problem believing that drowning thousands of people, among them little children and screaming virgins, horribly and painfully in the ice cold waters of the Atlantic for what one man said half in jest is a just punishment.
"If I could score one point with those who profess atheism, it’s to convince them that the god they don’t believe in, doesn’t exist."
Our interim pastor is fond of saying, "Tell me about the god you don't believe in, because I probably don't believe in him, either."
You can use that, Ray. I don't think he'd mind. ;)
@HoneyBee
You will find that all of those things have already happened multitudes of times. And in some form, are happening every day.
I'm going to need something bigger then 'Naturally Occurring Weather Patterns' or 'Typical Seismic Activity'. Hurricanes and Earthquakes aren't Gods will. I'm talking a whole, heavily populated city, wiped off the map. No survivors. No advance warning. FINAL DESTINATION!
But more importantly, at an appointed time, they will all certainly happen at a breathtaking speed.
The 'appointed time', has been hanging over mankind for nearly 2000 years. That's a pretty long time when you consider that the gospels contain TEN different verses saying the Rapture will occur during the lifetime of Jesus' Listeners. There is another ten verses saying it will happen during the lifetimes of the New Testaments Authors.
Clearly, they were quite wrong...
I don’t consider you as enemies. I would like to see every atheist as my friend.
Yet you and your christian comrades constantly misrepresent atheism at every turn. Some friend you are.
Reforming Baptist said...
If there's no God, as we are simply materialistic cosmic effects of forces that can't be explained, how can justice, fairness, good or evil be accounted for?
There's no good reason for there to be any of these things in your worldview!
Since atheists, in general, don't behave in accord with your hypothesis then we can reject said hypothesis.
Have you bothered to even do a little research on this subject. Read anything of sociology, anthropology or psychology? Probably not.
Yet here you dare pontificate on a whole class of people about a subject you know nothing about.
To Wait what
Jesus is 100% God And 100% man
Wait What
Here's your answer:
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 1 John 2:22
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3
That's the thing about the Bible. It doesn't mince words about the proclamation it's making. There is no way to be wishy washy about the message of the Bible or to say that everyone is seeking God in their own way. God has make a way by His own terms. It is through His Son Jesus Christ. No man comes to the Father except through Him.
allah is satan who deceives the nations. mohammed was a violent man, a pedophile and full of all kinds of hatred and evil. He stole the best parts of the Bible to make his book look somewhat truthful.
Vera
"Kaitlyn said...Hey Ray and all my Christian friends here, I am going to church for the first time tomorrow. It is actually an outside church for homeless people. I just thought you would get a kick out of that."
Kaitlyn...I am delighted. Let me know how it went.
Wait What said...
Please address the central issue of who Jesus is Man-God, or Prophet of the Muslim Faith who speaks of one true God.
Hi Wait Wait
If you want to know who Jesus is, try reading the Gospel of John.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." John 1:1-4
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
So, in summary Jesus was God in the flesh.
God Bless. Neil.
"If I could score one point with those who profess atheism"
You'd have more luck reaching atheists if you didn't refer to them in such a patronizing way. Do you still doubt that there is such a thing as a atheist? That we only think we're atheists?
For consistency with your disrespectful attitude you should change the title of this website to Those who profess atheism central
T_ConX said... “The 'appointed time', has been hanging over mankind for nearly 2000 years. That's a pretty long time when you consider that the gospels contain TEN different verses saying the Rapture will occur during the lifetime of Jesus' Listeners.”
The word ‘rapture’ does not appear in the Bible. Give the Scripture verses that say that the rapture would take place during the lifetime of Jesus’ listeners.
T_ConX said... “There is another ten verses saying it will happen during the lifetimes of the New Testaments Authors.”
Once again, give the Scripture verses that say it will happen during the lifetime of the New Testament authors. You are no doubt misunderstanding the verses. One I can think of that people misunderstand is John 21:22, “Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you? You follow Me." Jesus said IF He Wills that he (the disciple) remain till He comes – that doesn’t say that the disciple will – it says that if Jesus wanted that to happen, what is it to another. We should just be concerned if WE are following Jesus.
Matt 16:27, 28 was fulfilled (about six days later) in Matt 17:1-8. The disciples, Peter, James and John saw his transfiguration – a revelation of Jesus’ glory - and talking with Moses and Elijah about his coming death (demonstrating there is a conscious existence after death).
hope to see you in heave really said...
To Wait what
Jesus is 100% God And 100% man
July 19, 2009 7:44 AM
Think about that.., the Qur'an speaks to this however Ray will not allow me to post the relevant verses. Really in the end you might just be elevating a prophet to Godhood status. You may want to read the Qur'an as so many Christians on this blog like to point out, its only your eternal soul... you might also seriously consider why you dismiss the claims of the Qur'an, make sure you have the right concept of Jesus, is he man/God or is he the prophet of the one true God. Of course there are other options as well.
@...If I could score one point.
I don't know Ray, but I think you're losing the plot. You're all over the chessboard, moving your pieces willy-nilly, like a player who's content to remain a rank amateur, learning nothing from the game. And why not, I suppose?! I once dabbled in chess & 60 of us, chosen at random, played a chess master at a local tournament. Every single one of us was thrashed; the tournament lasted less than 2 1/2 hours. I was mated after 9 moves & didn't know what'd hit me. Other than the occasional game with my daughters, I don't play much. Believers remind me of dilettantes, not really serious about their beliefs. I suppose I could've boasted about having once played a chess master, but that would've been silly & childish. A bit like believers saying that they've got the final word on the Ultimate Truth, no 'ifs, ands or buts about it', when they patently don't.
Anyway, 2 points to make. You say you're better off "in the light of eternity" than atheists. What do you mean? If you're saying that you believe your God values belief in Him as the highest of human virtues, then I'm afraid, He's not worthy of reverence or veneration in the first place. And all the add-on beliefs, such as salvation & damnation, heaven & hell, become empty of meaning, if ever they had any to begin with.
As for measuring up to his so-called 'Perfect Law', as embodied in the 10 Commandments, we inevitably fall short, according to the dictates of Christian belief. By your lights & the Doctrine of Grace, we can only be forgiven for & shriven of our sins through the intercession of God's grace. He bestows his unmerited favour on us, undeserving as we are. This phoney 'gift' of pardon not only absolves us of personal responsibility, like the scapegoats of Leviticus, but, most importantly, takes no account of our victims. What right would I have to look for forgiveness from a third party for the death a child whom I'd killed? None whatsoever. The Doctrine of Grace is plainly immoral, if nothing else.
The idea of eternal salvation, absurd as it is, would have more going for it, if we were deemed to be accountable for our actions & judged on our 'works'. Even if we weren't capable of knowing right from wrong--which of course, in the real world, we are--, presumably the God you believe in wouldn't have any difficulty with any such distinction.
In fact NOT knowing one's ultimate fate would keep believers far more honest & humble than they are prone to be.
Long live atheism!
f you receive tomorrow a clear, unambiguous message from God instructing you to carry out military action on his behalf, would you follow that command. If not, then what has changed since the time of the old testament. If yes, then you are the most disgusting person on earth.
Hope to :
Let me add a bit of info to make the story more interesting !
But before you carry out your military action . wait for a while. i will sent myself(GOD) to go through the camp .And tell them that i do not want to kill them .All I want is that all of you to stop having sex with beast for all of you have been infected with a deadly virus and stop all your sodomite . Repent of your sin . I shall die in the place of those that believe in me you shall not touch them . for i gave my life for them And have heal all their disease . As for the rest . Because of their disease . and not wanting the cure . Kill them . because they want to spread this disease to other. They want to Kill the entire human race .
I will volunteer .....
Amy2 said...
Rabbitpirate,
Maybe you have a problem because God is infinite, and you are finite.
Oh yeah, thanks Amy. Now that you put it that way infinite torture for finite crimes seems so much more acceptable.
Seriously, do you really believe, I mean really believe, that eternal torture is a just punishment for even the worst crime that a person could commit?
Honestly if I committed the worst crime in history and did horrible things almost beyond imagination to people my actions would still be finite and would not come close to the evil of sending someone to be tortured for all of time.
The punishment does not fit the crime, or any crime for that matter, and so it can not be just.
Ray: "I don’t consider you as enemies. I would like to see every atheist as my friend."
So your method of making friends is to call people foolish, dishonest, adulterous murderers? Man, that NEVER works for me!
metallicafan said...
holy and just? are you kidding ray? so when a person kills a person its wrong,but when God does it its just? why? if a man killed another man for lying and blasphmeny,is that just? why not?
Hope to :
Let the one without sin cast the first stone !!!!!!!!!!!! Amen .
according to you,thats the kind of person God would send to hell anyway.it is not holy and it is not just. all you are trying to do is make your God look like the good guy so you won't look immoral for worshiping him.
Hope to :
He died for me on the cross . He that is without sin . came to die for me so that I might be justify .
this is why many atheists like myself have a problem with your religion as well as others. God does have the right to do whatever he wants just because he's God.if your god is real can he kill me? yes. is there anything i can do to stop him? no, but does it ok for him to do it? NO. so please explian ray why its ok for god to kill people,but wrong for people to do it. would you stand by and do nothing if your god came down and killed a bunch of people now?
Hope to :
Not time yet !!! for the number of Gentile have not been fully fulfilled !!!
also when are you gonna debate matt dillahunty? you claim to want to "save" atheists from hell,yet you don't debate matt,a man who has defeated every religious person he has debated.
Hope to :
Jesus die for you , you dispise . I hope that by “Intelligent” of this Matt friend of yours will stand by you on Judgement day . You going to need a lot of intelligent to debate with the one that created the whole universe !! Ray is nothing so is every religious leader .there is only one person Matt need to debate that is JESUS CHRIST .
tell you what ray,if you debate matt as soon as possiable and win,i'll convert to christianty.
Hope to :
You will not . For Jesus Christ word can’t convert you . NO ONE IN THIS WORLD CAN …
Verandoug:
"That's the thing about the Bible. It doesn't mince words about the proclamation it's making."
Con-artists generally don't. I don't trust anyone who calls for blind faith. And "there is no other way" sounds like a trick.
Shunted,
Actually, I gave a quite lengthy explanation of "sinful nature" but I believe Ray chose not to post it. Splitting hairs is not for an atheist blog, so I understand the intent. I'll try and word it better.
"Sinful nature" is a term used to define us, but it is not in earlier translations, much like the word "trinity".
In Genesis, we are told that death followed sin. There was no death in the world until Adam sinned. At that point, we were separated from God, because He can't be around sin. Because of God removing His presence, the Earth is under a curse, meaning everything deteriorates (creation) and we die. For being born INTO a sinful world, you can blame Adam for "physical death". I'm a little mad at him about that myself!
What I'm trying to get you to understand is that you inherited mortality from Adam's sin, but not sin itself. (The terms "death" and "sin" are not interchangeable)God did not create you a sinner, you became one by acting of your own accord in a sinful world. Freewill at its best/worst.
You are making an assumption that I want adulterers to be stoned. I don't. Like homosexuality, and other sexual sin, I could care less if two men want to have sex with each other, but God tells me I am to "abhor evil". Why? Because it sends people to hell, and I'm supposed to care enough about people not to want them to go there. I SHOULD hate sin. It was important enough for Jesus to die for.
I want what God wants.
BTW, it's interesting you said "we are paying the price". Paid in full by the Lamb of God.
Kerri,
Yes. You have been given plenty of explanations of why the Bible is the word of God, why He does what He does, and that He is not invisible. You're looking for a god of your own design, so naturally He is invisible to you.
Get out of the 60's while you still can!
Vera & HTSYIH,
Beautiful posts. Thank you so much.
RAY!!!!
Look, I'm not easily offended (how could I be!?), but come on, even the atheist ladies have to be insulted by culberto's post. I know you've said sometimes you allow posts so people we see the heart of a person, but, ew.
@Kaitlyn
Are you still doing all right?
It has been over two months since I read that you were fine. Please update us.
Its all about somethong or other cycled into the room on his unicylce juggling and garbled:
"GOD has given us the foresight ( the knowledge ) to know He exists, and His WORD is a 'contract' that He will not break for anyone.
One of the messages in his WORD is this:
REPENT + Confess your sins + Trust in JESUS CHRIST = Eternal LIFE
or,
REFUSE = Damnation for ETERNITY"
Fantsatic, the analogy with the mafia boss rears its ugly head again.
Pay me money + show me respect and fear = no broken legs
Refuse = some broken legs...and maybe we will burn your shop down.
what a swell guy this 'just' God is. The funny thing is that everyone of your xians seems to constantly forget that your God is supposed to be Omniscient.
Therefore (if he existed..its PRETEND time again Ray!) he would know exactly what it would take for each of us to believe in him and further hewould know in adance whether we WOULD end up believing in him before we die.
(I am not touching on free will here before any of you shout about that ridiculous 'free will is sacred' screed. But he knows what we will do with our free will according to you)
With this in mind it makes absolutley NO SENSE AT ALL to send ANYONE to hell for anything.
For if a just God created a human with complete foreknowledge that he wasnt going to believe in him because he didnt give the human that he created the evidence required and so was going to hell for eternity...what was the point in creating that person in the first place? For what purpose? WHY?
It is a ridiculous scenario and I find it baffling that you believe and worship this supposed being.
The problem for many is the fact that "God kills people," or he allows it. Every person who has ever lived, has died, except maybe Enoch and Elijah. Everyone who is born has a death sentence. The questions are: how, when, and why. And those things are left to the One who created us.
Pat
A month ago I was coming here every day. In approximately 30 days, my interest in this blog has gone down to nearly non existent.
Now I certainly applaud the efforts of people like Ryk and Steven J., among others. But I feel like this is just a game to Ray. A way for him to sharpen his runaround game.
I still honestly believe this is a good place if you want to practice catching the slippery believer and shooting moving targets, but nothing more.
I hate to give unsolicited advice, but I feel like this is very important. While I could be totally wrong, I think you guys should take Ray as the joke that he is, and nothing more.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Ray is doing anything other than attempting to annoy those who stand in the way of further riches. Think about how he comes to this blog day after day telling lie after lie. If he wasn't making a living doing it, I might be inclined to believe he is just delusional.
Amy2: "RAY!!!!
Look, I'm not easily offended (how could I be!?), but come on, even the atheist ladies have to be insulted by culberto's post. I know you've said sometimes you allow posts so people we see the heart of a person, but, ew."
Are you mis-reading culberto's post? All I see is the phrase "cupid stunt" (and I like to think of myself as quite a cunning linguist, even if I'm no match for a master debater like Ray).
If that phrase reminds you of another, more offensive one, I think that says more about you than about culberto. Why do you have such a dirty mind?
Neil Smith said...
Wait What said...
Please address the central issue of who Jesus is Man-God, or Prophet of the Muslim Faith who speaks of one true God.
Hi Wait Wait
If you want to know who Jesus is, try reading the Gospel of John.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." John 1:1-4
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:14
So, in summary Jesus was God in the flesh.
God Bless. Neil.
Why should I not read the Qur'an to understand Jesus, the Gospel of John was written by fallible men, the Qur'an has a divine origin?
How do we know these men did not make an idol out of a prophet, the Qur'an speaks directly to this again Ray does not post my comments which contain those verses.
Amy said In Genesis, we are told that death followed sin. There was no death in the world until Adam sinned. At that point, we were separated from God, because He can't be around sin
there you go putting limits on a limitless entity, it's like your view of God says he's allergic to sin which is just ridiculous... God is not invisible to me, but I tend to wish your bible was. I've been given more reasons why the bible is not the word of God then the reasons it is.
Ray,
Einstein wrote:
"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
So once again, why would you be appealing to what you are promoting as the 'authority' of Einstein regarding your concept of 'God'?
Any ideas?
T_ConX said: "The 'appointed time', has been hanging over mankind for nearly 2000 years."
That is true, but if you will do a serious study of the Book of Daniel, you will understand that world history is happening exactly the way God told us it would. I suggest getting a good Bible Commentary or using the online commentaries that are available at "Crosswalk" or "BlueletterBible" websites.
T_ConX said: "That's a pretty long time when you consider that the gospels contain TEN different verses saying the Rapture will occur during the lifetime of Jesus' Listeners. There is another ten verses saying it will happen during the lifetimes of the New Testaments Authors.
I don't know how to say this without putting you on the defensive -- certainly not my intention -- but you are mistaken. Your statements about what the Bible says are simply not true.
Chuck Missler covers the subject of the Olivet Discourse very well, which is what I'm sure you are referring to. There are a lot of misunderstandings about it, even by some Biblical scholars.
I will only make the point here that Matthew and Luke were talking about two different occasions.
Luke was talking about "before" the signs (See Luke 11) and was referring to the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD.
Matthew was referring to "after" the signs and was talking about signs that will happen just before the rapture.
I would be happy to try to answer any questions that you have...
Blessings...
J Said...
I was once a Christian as well, and although at the time I would have made, and no doubt did make, statements similar to yours here, I have to say that my understanding of the world makes far more sense now than it did when I was a Christian (I know I know, I wasn't a "True Christian").
Hi J
I agree with you, many people say they are Christian, byt are not.
"Jesus answered and said to him. Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:5-6
If you have been born again spiritually you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
God Bless. Neil.
Ray, why are you afraid to let Wait What post verses from the Qur'an? Is it because they are too convincing? Worried that some of your flock might stray?
Ray says:
If I could score one point with those who profess atheism, it’s to convince them that the god they don’t believe in, doesn’t exist.
I don't believe in your God, and the more you post, the more points you score in convincing me even more confidently that your God doesn't exist.
So kudos to you!
Raoul Rheits said...
Ray once more uses Einstein to sell Ray's religion:
"We are as Einstein said, like a little child in a massive library. "
He also wrote:
"the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
- Albert Eintein in a letter dated January 3 1954.
So Ray, just out of interest (and ignoring for a moment your propensity to quote Einstein out of context in support of Christianity)...
.... why would you be appealing to the authority of Einstein?
Because even though Einstein was not a Christian, he was well aware of a Creator's existence.
@Unicorn
Actually my interest in this blog waxes and wanes pretty regularly. It usually depends on whether I am going to be working at my desk. When I am, this is a fun diversion, when I am traveling or working in the field I seldom bother to check in except maybe a quick look over morning coffee.
I find Ray to be entertaining, and he serves a useful purpose. I think what you said about using Ray and his followers as practice is very true. What is more I think this blog can serve as a motivator.
When I started posting here I was very lazy about atheism. I didn't really think about it at all. Since I have started posting here and elsewhere I have realized that I can make a difference. As an open and outspoken atheist I have always attracted the interest of people who have doubts about their faith, In the past I always tried to steer them right but never gave much thought to de-converting them or positively helping them change.
Now I know better I have learned the right things to say to reassure people that it is OK not to believe.
I have learned that many people who seek out religious arguments with atheists aren't trying to convert us, they are hoping we will help convince them to abandon their superstition, and this blog has helped give me the tools to do so.
I have started a little blog about atheism and life without religion. I have opened dialogues with young atheists and agnostics, as well as young believers both on the internet and in life. I have generally become what I hear referred to as a "new atheist" and I like it a lot.
I am glad that I discovered Ray Comforts blog, it is my hope that it will motivate, inspire and prepare a whole wave of new atheists to show the world about life beyond religion.
As always I repeat that the best difference an atheist can make is to be honest, outspoken, honorable and live a decent and admirable life. Arguments and dialogue have their place but the best thing we can do to end religion is demonstrate that we are good, moral, and successful people without it. If we want people to abandon the Christian lifestyle we have to show them a better one.
Nice try Chris B.
Would you like to define what a cupid stunt is for us then?
If all you have is the "it says more about you" argument, that is sad indeed. I hope no one ever calls your wife or daughter that.
Nature'sOwnBrew said...
Einstein was an atheist.
Really.
Seriously.
REALLY.
Look it up.
The only reason I bring it up is because you have to play 'this or that' with metaphysics.
Einstein was certainly NOT an atheist. The Science Channel has been doing a lot of Einstein specials lately, and it's very clear that he was a believer in God (although not in the traditional sense). The reason why he worked so hard on the "theory of everything" is because he absolutely refused to accept quantum mechanics. He wanted his theory of everything to replace quantum mechanics. In a debate with Neil Bohr, Einstein famously said: "God does not roll dice." Einstein's theory of everything revolved around the following question: "How would God create everything?" Because Einstein looked through the lense of science from this perspective, many of Einstein's peers felt his theory of everything was doomed for failure from the very beginning. This is also why his peers felt he was not up to speed with modern science (quantum mechanics) and wasted the better portion of his remaining life.
I hope this clarifies Einstein being an atheist, as it's simply not true. The Science channel made it clear that his belief in a Creator led to his scientific downfall.
Chris B said: "Are you mis-reading culberto's post? All I see is the phrase "cupid stunt" (and I like to think of myself as quite a cunning linguist, even if I'm no match for a master debater like Ray).
"If that phrase reminds you of another, more offensive one, I think that says more about you than about culberto. Why do you have such a dirty mind?"
----
Chris, anyone with a working brain can see what was meant by a seemingly strange combination of the words "cupid" and "stunt."
I love those word puzzles that are printed in the comics section of the newspaper. It isn't that difficult to see the play on words here.
And I don't think a woman has a dirty mind when she recognizes that someone is blatantly insulting her with what was supposed to be cryptic filthy language.
to wait what :
Sorry if you as a muslim want to win people to your AllAH . Create your own ATHEIST central . this blogger is only For Atheist and Jesus believer .
Note : for 600 years Christianity have been there proclaiming Jesus die buried and resurrected . Than suddenly someone from no where say that God told him JESUS did not die !
Amy2:
"Would you like to define what a cupid stunt is for us then?"
You mean an imitation of the valentine's day character? But seriously, it wouldn't matter if it was complete gibberish. If I invent a nonsense word like "glest" and you decide it is somehow filthy, it does say more about you than it does about me. You are endeavoring to assign an offense that exists only in your mind. Unless, of course, you can demonstrate common offensive usage.
@Beth: You want verses? Fine!
Lifetime of listeners:
"Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." -- Matthew16:28
"But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." -- Luke 9:27
"Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:36
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled." -- Matthew 24:34
"Nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Matthew 26:64
"Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." -- Mark 9:1
"Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done." -- Mark 13:30
"And ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." -- Mark 14:62
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled." -- Luke 21:32
"Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?" -- John 21:22
Lifetime of authors:
"Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ... that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 1:7-8
"But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none." -- 1 Corinthians 7:29
"That ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ. -- Philippians 1:10
"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." -- 1 Thessalonians 4:17
"I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23
"Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...." -- Hebrews 1:2
"But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself." -- Hebrews 9:26
"Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." -- 1 Peter 1:20
"But the end of all things is at hand." -- 1 Peter 4:7
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." -- 1 John 2:18
BONUS ROUND! The End, like Duke Nukem Forever, is coming soon:
"The Lord is at hand." -- Philippians 4:5
"For the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." -- James 5:8
"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry." -- Hebrews 10:37
"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass. -- Revelation 1:1
"The time is at hand." -- Revelation 1:3
"Behold, I come quickly." -- Revelation 3:11, 22:7, 22:12
"Surely I come quickly." -- Revelation 22:20
@Honeybee
Blah Blah Book of Daniel Blah Blah
Do not get me started on that dream diary...
I hope this clarifies Einstein being an atheist, as it's simply not true. The Science channel made it clear that his belief in a Creator led to his scientific downfall.
From what I've heard and read, Einstein was a deist like me... see you can make Einstein be an argument for everyone ;)
Brian in VA:
"Because even though Einstein was not a Christian, he was well aware of a Creator's existence."
Once again you are claiming that Einstein believed in a personal God.
You didn't really answer the question at all, you just misrepresented Einstein in the same way that Ray did.
What I'm asking is why do you use an agnostic non-believer of the Bible and the Biblical God to spread your message?
What 'authority' do you impute upon such a person as Einstein?
Amy2: "Nice try Chris B."
Thanks, honey.
"Would you like to define what a cupid stunt is for us then?"
Cupid: "In Roman mythology, Cupid (Latin cupido) is the god of erotic love and beauty."
Stunt: "Any remarkable feat performed chiefly to attract attention"
So, logically, a "Cupid Stunt" is a bit of ill-advised match-making done for attention...such as Ray's attempts in this post to reconcile with atheists and convince them they aren't enemies.
It could also be considered a "Cupid Stunt" if Ray were to jump a motorcycle over the Grand Canyon while naked except for a pair of wings and a bow and quiver.
It seems a pretty straight-forward term to me; I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape about it.
"If all you have is the "it says more about you" argument, that is sad indeed."
I'm sorry if it saddens you to have your filthy mind pointed out publicly, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
"I hope no one ever calls your wife or daughter that."
I HAVE A WIFE AND DAUGHTER?!?!?!?! Why didn't anyone tell me??!! Why have you been hiding them from me?!?! WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN DOING TO THEM, YOU PERVERT?!?!?!?!?!?!
Brian in VA could you please provide the Einstein quote where he claims to be believe in the Creation of the Universe by 'the Creator'?
ALl I ever read by Einstein about 'God' was that Einstein believed the 'ordered harmony' of the Universe/Nature itself to be 'God'.
I never read that he believed in an external 'being' that 'created' The Universe.
When you find the quote, can you also post it to the 'Einstein Papers Project', I'm sure they too would like to receive any missing papers.
Rock Sprites: "Chris, anyone with a working brain can see what was meant by a seemingly strange combination of the words "cupid" and "stunt.""
I've already said how I define "Cupid Stunt". What's unreasonable about my definition? Why not be a bit more clear in explaining what YOU think is meant by it?
"I love those word puzzles that are printed in the comics section of the newspaper."
What's a "newspaper"? We live in the internet age, Grandpa.
"It isn't that difficult to see the play on words here."
What do you mean by a play on...OH! Ohhhhhh, I see now. You think culberto was REALLY saying "Stupint Cud". Doesn't make much sense to me, I don't see why it offends YOU so much.
"And I don't think a woman has a dirty mind when she recognizes that someone is blatantly insulting her with what was supposed to be cryptic filthy language."
Insulting her? Was the comment directed specifically at Amy2? I don't think it was. And I don't think it's fair to blame somebody for every supposed obscenity some sicko thinks they see in a collection of letters. Several obscenities could be assembled from the letters I've used in this message. Should I be banned from using those letters? Should I be blamed for whatever profane language you can tease out by playing "word games"?
Doesn't seem fair or logical to me. And it would seem Ray (and/or his blog moderator) agrees with me, judging from his reluctance to delete the original comment, despite all this discussion about it.
Raoul Rheits said...
Once again you are claiming that Einstein believed in a personal God.
You didn't really answer the question at all, you just misrepresented Einstein in the same way that Ray did.
What I'm asking is why do you use an agnostic non-believer of the Bible and the Biblical God to spread your message?
What 'authority' do you impute upon such a person as Einstein?
The same authority I use when quoting the Discovery Institute. Although they're not all Christians, they teach intelligent design. Einstein certainly believed in intelligent design.
Raoul Rheits said...
Brian in VA could you please provide the Einstein quote where he claims to be believe in the Creation of the Universe by 'the Creator'?
ALl I ever read by Einstein about 'God' was that Einstein believed the 'ordered harmony' of the Universe/Nature itself to be 'God'.
I never read that he believed in an external 'being' that 'created' The Universe.
When you find the quote, can you also post it to the 'Einstein Papers Project', I'm sure they too would like to receive any missing papers.
Raoul, as I stated above (and as recently described by the Science Channel), Einstein approached science within the framework of asking how God would have created everything. This is why he tried to replace quantum mechanics with the theory of everything, because "God does not play dice with the universe." This is actually a very famous quote, so I have to wonder how Einstein's belief in a Creator can even be disputed.
Oh I know, it's like when Ray uses Dumb Duh and Stupid as 'Random' strings of letters.
Chris B said: ".....Doesn't seem fair or logical to me. And it would seem Ray (and/or his blog moderator) agrees with me, judging from his reluctance to delete the original comment, despite all this discussion about it."
----
It would appear to me that they want people to see your true colors as you attempt to defend vulgarity, but then again, maybe I'm just reading into things too much again.
Fine Chris.
Ask your Dad if he'd mind you calling your mom that.
It was juvenile, as is your comments trying to defend it.
Amy2: "It was juvenile, as is your comments trying to defend it."
You're the one who threw a tantrum over mere words. I personally think there are better things to worry about or be offended by in this world.
But if it makes you feel better, sure, I'M the juvenile one.
Rock Sprites: "It would appear to me that they want people to see your true colors as you attempt to defend vulgarity, but then again, maybe I'm just reading into things too much again."
Fair enoUgh. Clearly, i made a mistaKe. You were cOrrect, and I was oUt of line.
My apologies.
Chris B:
On the other hand, non-standard capitalization is often-enough used to indicate only the capitalized letters. It is one thing to face people who imagine filth that is not there. It is quite another to provide it.
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